HOLY TRINITY LIE
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FROM A CATHOLIC TRUTH SOCIETY BOOKLET
THE BIBLE CONTRADICTS THE TRINITY
REASON AND THE TRINITY
The Christian doctrine of the Holy Trinity says that there is one God and
that God is three persons. The persons
are not three Gods but one God. God is
not three persons in one person but three persons in one being. The persons are God the Father, God the Son
and God the Holy Spirit. God the Son
became a man. Jesus Christ was God the
Son.
The three are not literal persons according to Christian theology for persons are limited beings and these three are not three beings or limited but are one unlimited being.
Some say the key to realising that the Trinity is not nonsense is realising that the three are not persons as we know them. But this is dishonest for they still say that God is indivisible and undivided and that there are separate relationships within that God. The Trinity doctrine is supposed to indicate that there are relationships in God. That is what it expresses.
If there can be three in God there can be
three persons as we know persons in God.
If there are three relationships there are three persons in the full
sense and that is that. The doctrine of
the Trinity leads directly to tritheism in practice because the vast majority
of Christians have never heard that God is three “persons” not three persons
and they think there are three persons in one person. The fruit of the doctrine has been idolatry
and this shows that if the Old Testament doctrine that idolatry is wrong and
sinful and God hates it above all things then it follows that the Christian
religion was founded by men or satanic powers for the fruits have been
godlessness and apostasy and worthless worship.
The Christians say that if they said there were three Gods in one God they would be contradicting themselves. Or if they were to say there were three persons in one person they would be contradicting themselves. They claim that they are only saying there are three persons in one God or being. In other words, God has one nature but he has three centres of consciousness in that one nature. That is to say there is only one What (being) but three Whos (page 367, When Critics Ask). This really means that God as a being is impersonal. God does not describe a who but a what. It contradicts the Bible insistence that God is Father and friend and so on. The claim that there are three persons in that being does not fix this. If electricity is impersonal but a person is made out of it, electricity is still impersonal. If another person is made out of it then you have two persons but only one force. It is like how humans are made of the same stuff but are individuals. The Trinity seems to give us three separate Gods. The elements that make up the universe are impersonal but we are made of these elements. Yet we are the persons and the elements that make us up are not. In practice, Christians treat the being of God as personal and even more important than the three persons - after all without that being the three persons would have no divinity. They worship the being which is impersonal. The persons are only worshipped for being God so it is really God who is being worshipped. So in practice they worship one God but three Gods as well. Its all contradiction and confusion. An impersonal force is honoured above personhood. The Trinity despite being disguised as a dignifying doctrine is not dignifying at all. It does not inspire us. The Christians have lied themselves into a corner with it. The Christians claim to see that there is only one God in the Bible but it seems to speak of the Father and Son and Holy Spirit being three distinct beings. The Bible never actually teaches their distinction between person and being and what and who in relation to God. Their trinity is unbiblical.
Some Christians just stick to the idea of God being one in three and three in one and choose to say no more for saying any more leads to misunderstanding and idolatry. If they are right then the Catholic Church is lying about being infallible for it brought out creeds such as the Nicene Creed which speaks of the three persons in one God in terms of there being one what and three whos. The God of the Catholics would be impersonal meaning that they are idolaters for worshipping him (it would be a more accurate word). The Jesus of the Catholics would be a fake. The First Epistle of John says that whoever has the wrong Jesus is an antichrist. The Catholic Jesus is not the Jesus of the gospels who proclaimed God Abba or Daddy not some impersonal force.
Does the doctrine of three persons in one God conflict with reason?
It is replied that space is length, width and height yet it is one. It is three in one and one in three like the
Trinity. But in the Trinity, there
necessarily has to be three while space can drop one dimension. Length and width can exist without
height. We conclude then that this is no
proof that the Trinity doctrine can be true.
It is irrelevant.
The Church believes that God has to exist in the same way as 1+1 have to
be 2. It says the Son comes from the
Father and the Holy Spirit from both to make them the one so the figure three
seems necessary.
It is argued that time consists of past, present and future which is
exactly like the Trinity for they are one.
If time stopped the future would not exist but the past and present
would so this is different from the Trinity which says God has to be three.
People are said to be trinities.
They are nature, person and personality yet one being. Christians teach that since Genesis says God
made man in his own image and likeness that we must be three in one like
him. Rubbish. The three: nature, person and personality, can
be completely separate and still come together to make a person. A computer is not one being because it has a
nature, the power to sense and the power to work. It’s a composite. A being that had consciousness alone and no
memory or will would still be a person.
The Trinity doctrine denies this so it is only fit for fascists.
Some say the universe is three in one the same as God. It consists of space, matter and time but
when all of these things are so mysterious how can anybody say they understand
them enough to know that they are three entities in one being?
Do Christians believe in three Gods in one God? They use the analogies we have scrutinised to
argue that they do not. But the
analogies are not close enough to it to answer no! There is no evidence that the Christians
believe in one God and not in three in one.
Jesus, the monotheist would have been appalled at the doctrine of the
Trinity.
It is held that the Trinity is possible because its mathematics are not
1+1+1=3 but 1x1x1=1. But this is
ludicrous simply because each of the multiplied figures is the same figure
being multiplied by itself. If this is
the mathematics of God then God is one person not three. And if God can’t do a basic sum then he
should not be dictating to people that they must believe that he is one in
three.
If the Father multiplies himself to make the Son then how could you
multiply that which is unlimited and infinite?
The Father is supposed to cause
the Son and both cause the Holy Spirit.
The Nicene Creed says, “We believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Only
Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God light from Light,
true God from true God begotten not made, of one being with the Father and
through him all things were made. For us
men and for our salvation he came down from Heaven. He was conceived by the Holy Sprit and born
of the Virgin Mary.” This is not 1x1x1=1
but 1 causes another 1 which both cause a further 1. God is a spiritual being that has no
composition, he has no parts.
Multiplication and addition have only meaning for things that have
composition. You cannot multiply
something abstract and God is like an abstract.
There can be no multiplication or addition within a spiritual
nature. Think of it this way. God is by definition the uncaused being. He is uncreated. But in God the Father begets the Son and both
project the Holy Spirit! So the Trinity
has that which cannot be caused causing the Son and causing the Holy Spirit.
It’s all contradiction. For example, the
creed pretends that begotten is not the same as being made! If you are begotten you are made. Your father begot you when he made you from
his sperm. God the Father is thought to
be unbegotten so you have an unbegotten person in God and a begotten one and
then they tell you that God is one being!
These debunked arguments have been obtained from fundie, Professor Henry
Morris’s dire book, Science and the Bible.
The Trinity dogma insists that God can only be three. He has to be three the same way that 5+5 have to be 10, that is logically. But does God have to be three? God is perfect. If God could do without one person he would not be perfect for what is unnecessary is imperfect. But God is the necessary being and all of his being is necessary. To be perfect involves being needed to exist. If God is a person who does not need to be then God is not the necessary being. God is not God. It is the same if he has a person who is not needed in him. See the inference of the doctrine of the Trinity that proofs for God cannot make sense unless you believe in the Trinity first. But the Old Testament attempts to give evidence for God without starting off with a Triune God. This implies that the Old Testament which at best does not clearly teach the Trinity and at worst denies it offered a God who was not a God for worship and service and sometimes barbaric obedience. It implies that it offered something unprovable though asking it to be treated as provable. If God was good the Trinity would have been clearly revealed from the very start.
Jesus according to the gospels was a true man. The Church says he was God as well. Jesus prayed to God. He would have as far as experience goes have seemed to have been and felt he was a different person from God. Yet he is not a separate person according to the Trinity doctrine. He is more separate than the Father is from the Holy Spirit and still he was the same being as God. If that is possible, then why can't we have three persons in one person? The Trinity doctrine coupled with the idea of Jesus being God means that no matter what kind of division or difference exists it will not be admitted and we must pretend that God can be indivisable and undivided and still divided!
The Trinity doctrine creates so many problems and questions that it would be better scrapped as implausible and ridiculous and irrational.
The Christians teach the absolutely insane idea that people can be made out of as in from love. This is madder than saying babies are made of the air you breath out!
They teach that Father exists of himself and his love for himself is the Son and the
Holy Spirit is the mutual love of the Father and the Son. It is said that the Holy Spirit is necessary
to complete God. If the Father and the
Son did not love one another then God would be imperfect. But the Father in loving himself loves the
Son and since the Son is the love of the Father by loving himself he loves the
Father. The Holy Spirit is
superfluous. He is described as the mutual
love of the Father and the Son as if he were a glue to bind them together to
make them one God. God should not need
glue!
According to the
Eastern Church, the Holy Spirit does not proceed from the Father and the Son
but proceeds from the Father alone through the Son. The Holy Spirit is the love of the Father for
the Son but not the love of the Son for the Father. When the love of the Father for the Son is a
person and the love of the Son for the Father is not then we have a
contradiction. We have disunity in God.
If the Father’s love for Son becomes a person then the same must be true
of the love of the Son for the Father.
That makes four persons in God.
The love of the Father for this new person and the love of the son for
him make two more persons. And on and on
it goes until we find an infinity of persons in God. The Trinity is incoherent. If God is not just one person then there is
no limit to the number of persons he is.
The Trinity doctrine is an insult to all these people.
The
If the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son then he is the
Son of God the Father and the Son of the Son and also the Grandson of the
Father. How silly it all gets.
Only a fool would agree with the Church that the Father’s love of himself
becomes the Son. Who does the Son’s
self-love become? Who does the Holy
Spirit’s self-love become?
To assert that the Father causes the Son and then that the being of God
cannot be caused is to contradict oneself.
We are told that if God were not more than one person then he could not be a real and true person because he has nobody to love. He would be an impersonal force or he would be unfulfilled and unhappy and need to make people to love. He would not be God or supreme when he needs something outside himself. But if a person who is doing their homework and not thinking about love is a person then God can be a person too if he is Unitarian, or one person. Love is an act of will. Therefore you can love if there is nobody to love for you would love and are loving the best you can. This does not imply that you are incomplete until you love.
If there are relationships in God then the Father is having a relationship with the Son and the Holy Spirit. The Son is having a relationship with the Father and the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is having a relationship with the Father and the Son. This is utter nonsense for how could there be a relationship when they think the same thing and agree all the time? They all know the same things and anything one does all does. To say God is relationships is as absurd as saying that God is three persons.
Suppose the argument is right that God needs to be more than one person. Well, the fact that he can't be three people in one God is sure proof that the God idea is entirely nonsensical and incoherent. It contradicts itself.
Also, when Christians believe that it is possible for three persons to be one being then how do they know that a unipersonal God can’t be happy? If the Bible said God was unipersonal they would be saying his happiness was a mystery. The God of the Torah never calls himself a spirit or Trinity but just stresses that he made all things and knows what is right and is fair and just and has spoken through prophets. In Deuteronomy 13 he warns against those who make prophecies that come true but who try to lead the people to other Gods. One way to lead such people to other Gods is by changing the teachings about the God that does exist to turn him into another God. Thus the Torah forbids the concept of the Trinity and God becoming man for these were later doctrines.
It is hard to see how Christians can refer to God as he when they mean they! They only use he because the entire Bible says he. Jesus said that God was daddy not daddies.
God can't have any needs for he is perfect and almighty. Is it really right to love for the sake of loving? Should there not be a need for the love? If God the Son loves God the Father then he is giving him love he doesn't need. No decent being asks for love that he doesn't need unless he asks it for the loving one's sake. The love would bother him for love implies sacrifice according to Christian doctrine. The Son being God doesn't need to love him when God the Father doesn't need this love. God the Son is loving himself not the Father if he loves the Father not for the Father's sake but his. The love in the Trinity is a fake hypocritical love. It is not real love.
As you will see from GOD A GUIDE FOR THE PERPLEXED (Keith Ward, OneWorld, Oxford, 2003, page 52), God, in Christian philosophy is utterly simple. The book says this means that God is not composite. The three persons of the Trinity are not parts of God that are put together to make God. God is not divisable. We cannot tell apart different elements in the being we call God. So we don't really know what we mean when we speak of God being three in one. So God revealing the Trinity means that God revealed words that mean nothing to us. They are just words. A God like that is a trickster. It is beneath him.
If it is so great for God to be more than one person then why is he just three? Why is he just three persons having relationships together? Why can't he be an infinity of persons? It is more perfect for there to be an infinity of persons in existence and therefore an infinity of relationships? If God is relationships then the trinity is false in the sense that a perfect God cannot be just three persons. The trinity then is the blasphemous denial of the perfection of God though it pays lip service to that perfection.
The trinity doctrine is fraught with problems and outright nonsense.
FROM
A CATHOLIC TRUTH SOCIETY BOOKLET
From pages 50, 51,
CTS EXPLANATIONS, Jehovah’s Witnesses, by John Wijngaards, Catholic Truth
Society,
Three
“Persons” in the Blessed Trinity
Watchtower
Argument
Christians say that there are three Persons
in God: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
They profess at the same time that there is only one God. But these two statements are completely
contradictory.
To be a true “person”, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit must be able to act
independently. Each person has his own
mind and takes his own decisions. But
this means that there are really three Gods.
The old Trinitarian gods of the pagan world have been reintroduced into
Christianity in a new guise.
Response
The objection would be valid if the word “Person” used in the Trinitarian
formula were to have the same meaning as the word “person” in modern
English. But such is not the case.1
The use of the term “Person” in the Trinity was introduced by the Greek
Fathers of the Church as an equivalent to hypostasis
subsistence. What they were trying
to express is that somehow, though God is One, God is not solitary. Within the One God there are mutual
relationships, as it were different faces that reflect one another. 2
In human language this is sometimes expressed as the Father reflecting on
himself and thus giving birth to the Son, and the Father and Son reflecting on
their mutual love which becomes the Holy Spirit. Since we are talking about God’s deepest
essence, we are dealing with first –class mystery, and human terms will always
remain inadequate.
Using the term “Person” is not a fortunate turn of phrase when we speak
of the Trinity today. For in present-day
usage, a “person” refers to an individual who can independently think, decide
and act. This is not how it is in the
Trinity. The early Church Councils
clearly expressed that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are One God. They have one intelligence, one will, and one
combined external action, 3 if we may use such human terms about God.
Father, Son and Spirit possess one divine nature are not distinct in
anything else except their mutual relationship to each other.
Conclusion
If we may sum up the meaning of our Christian belief in the Trinity in
non-theological terms, it comes to this.
God, cosmic Mind and uncreated Love, is so intensely personal that we
experience God as caring Parent, intimate Brother and inner Spark in us, all at
the same time. The personal dimensions
in God are inexhaustible.
1 The Church admits that there would be a contradiction between saying there were three persons in God and that there was only one God so it denies that persons is the right word. This contradicts Jesus in John 8:17, 18. There he says that the law of Moses declares that the testimony of two people is true. He says that he testifies for himself and the Father testifies for him making up the two. This certainly implies that Jesus and the Father are two completely separate persons or centres of consciousness. If it was not two persons in one being but two "persons" in one being, the fact that they are the one being would mean that Jesus has not two witnesses but one.
2 We see that the Church denies that there are three literal persons for this is absurd. But then it says that there are mutual relationships in God. Why is it absurd to say there are three persons and then not absurd to say that though God is one he has relationships in himself? It makes no sense. First we are told that God is one and then that there are three distinctions in him, Father, Son and Spirit, so he’s not one after all. For a relationship to exist there has to be more than one person. A God who has a relationship with himself like he is three different people
The Church says that when it speaks of the three persons of the Trinity it doesn’t mean there are three individuals in God for that would be contradictory. God can’t be one God and also be three individuals. But he can be three whatevers and the Church is clear that the Father is not the Son or Holy Spirit and the Son is not the Holy Spirit or the Father and the Holy Spirit is not the Father or the Son. The Church tries to avoid the charge of contradiction by saying that God is not made up of literal persons but this is a trick to obscure the obvious contradiction between God being one individual and undivided being and his having separation in him. The Church likes to distract from the real issue. The Trinity is really three Gods pretending to be one God or the Church believing in three Gods and denying it. God couldn’t reveal the Trinity to us even if it were. We think in terms of either one or three not both. To honour the Holy Trinity then is to unavoidably honour three gods. Its the way we are made, we have no choice. God then has forced us into apostasy and polytheism by revealing the doctrine. Christianity is a polytheistic religion, it has more than one God.
The book by Brian Davies, a Dominican, The Reality of God and the Problem of Evil, states that the doctrine of the Trinity does not say that there are three distinct centres of consciousness in God (page 60). What it is saying that though God is undivided and one there are distinctions in him meaning that the Father is not the Son or the Holy Spirit and the Son is not the Holy Spirit. One wonders how God can be undivided and be one consciousness not three have these differences in himself when one person cannot be three persons or three persons one person.
3 If God is a personal relationship between the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit then if the three always act together and have one intelligence and one will then there is no relationship. How could there be when relationships take place only between separate beings who have separate wills and intelligences. They can will and know the same things but nevertheless though the content of the will and the intelligence may be the same they are separate. If John and Jack intend to steal a pound sitting on a table they will the same things but the wills are separate faculties or powers.
The Church says that God became man in Jesus Christ. However Jesus is not the Father or the Holy Spirit but he is the Son. He is the second person of the Trinity. But if the Trinity is so close that we can deny the three are literal persons then how come Jesus is God the Son only? Surely he would have to be the Father and the Holy Spirit as well? The Church has never accepted the doctrine of treble incarnation that the three persons became the one man. It regards it as a heresy for it says the title Son of God indicates that Jesus was God the Son. Also Jesus when he prayed to God prayed to the Father so he couldn’t be the Father for you can’t pray to yourself. The Church says the three persons pray to each other for pray means have relationship with. Jesus said that nobody knows the Father but the Son indicating they are not the same person or being and that the Holy Spirit is certainly either the Father or not God at all. To say Jesus is God the Son only, implies that he is indeed a separate person and so the Trinity does consist of three individuals or Gods.
The Church admits that it doesn’t clearly know what the Trinity means and has no understanding of it. Words don’t help much and are only employed as an alternative to silence. The Church however claims that God revealed the doctrine to give us intimate knowledge of him and to tell his most intimate secret to us. All this sweet talk is sheer nonsense. It doesn’t really reveal anything. A God who gives us an unintelligible secret is giving us nothing at all. He is a cheat. The doctrine of the Trinity was just an invention of the Church.
THE BIBLE CONTRADICTS THE TRINITY
The Trinity doctrine is alleged to be taught in the Bible. But we know that the doctrine that Jesus is
God is not be found in it.
So are there two persons in God, the Father and the Holy Spirit?
The Bible describes the Spirit as personal but not as God.
Since the Son and the Spirit are not God it is plain that the Bible never
mentions a Trinity. But look at the
proof texts for the Trinity.
The Father speaking from Heaven while the Holy Spirit comes upon Jesus in
the
Even if Jesus is God the Son and the Trinity, meaning they are the same
partless being but different persons, is true then Jesus praying to the Father
does not show that he is not the Father because to pray to the Father is to
pray to himself even if he is another person anyway.
Jesus could promise to send his power though it is a part of him. Similarly, he could have sent the same person
as the Holy Spirit and promise to send the Holy Spirit.
Jesus commanded baptism in the name of the Father, Son and Holy
Spirit. He means authority by name. It is said that when he said name and not
names the three must be one God. But the
three being one in purpose and will not in substance or nature could still be
said to have one name or be one authority for they agree in all things. And if he said names he would be looking at
their authority from a different perspective but meaning the same thing. In a sense they are three authorities. The authenticity of this verse is doubtful.
It is heretical blasphemy to assume that the Holy Spirit is God for when
scripture is silent it means he is not.
It would say if he was.
Did Jesus claim to be God the Father when Philip asked him to show him
the Father and he replied that he had seen him by looking at him? If he can show the Father without being the
Father, he can show the Father without being God. Catholics shy away from this verse to prove
that Jesus is God for Catholics deny that Jesus is God the Father. Jesus meant
he showed the Father by his actions and by the kind of person he was. Nothing in the verse then indicates that
Jesus is God.
Jesus was supposedly God and man in one person. Perhaps the Father exchanged places with the
Son? More probably, if Jesus revealed
God in his doctrine and works then to see Jesus was to see God even if he was
not God or God but not the Father. The
Trinity doctrine says that he who worships one of the divine person worships
the rest too, so to see Jesus is to see the Father for he is the mirror of the
Father. Did Jesus have the person of God
the Father in mind? Perhaps not for all
three persons together are called the Father though there is a God the Father
among them.
The Bible says Hear O Israel, the Lord our God is one. This is known to be one in its fullest indivisible
sense and implies a oneness so perfect that it cannot be any more one (Priestland’s
Progress, page 121).
The Trinity doctrine depends on the validity of the doctrine that God is
an immaterial being who has no parts and is his own attributes for a material
God cannot be three persons in one being any more than three shamrock leaves
could be one leaf. This would be the God
of Plato and Thomas Aquinas. But the
Bible never envisions a God like this.
The first five books of the Bible say that God walked in the garden of
Eden and came down to see what was happening at Babel and when Moses saw God he
did not see his face for God screened it but he just saw God from behind. This and the fact that God is said to have
made Adam in his own image and that Adam begat a son in his own image suggests
that God has a human body or has something that is like a body in all main
respects. Perhaps it is a cosmological
body of intelligent gas. Not once does
the Law which claims to be the most important revelation and by which any new
ones were to be tested (it is only natural that the first revelation or prophet
should be the standard by which any new claimant should be examined for it was
there first and the revelation has to agree with itself) say that God is a
bodiless entity or an immaterial being.
Therefore God is not. This is the
simplest and most logical interpretation and the one intended. The Mormon doctrine that God the Father has a
human body and is not an immaterial being is thus vindicated. It makes the incarnation of God the Son less
likely because God knows what it is like to be in a body.
There is no evidence in the Bible of the Trinity doctrine. The Father alone is God. The Holy Spirit is really a supreme angel below Jesus the Son.
The Bible gives God the name Elohim in the Law of Moses and in other Bible books. The name appears 2570 times in the Old Testament (page 9, Patriarchal and Mosaic Religion). It seems to come from El which means the one whom all men strive to reach (page 9, ibid). Or it may come from an Arabic word Aliha which possibly means, "Object of Fear" (page 9, ibid). This word Elohim means Gods and is used in the Bible to speak of men with godlike powers, the gods of pagan nations and of the shadows of the dead (page 9 ibid). Christians say that God is called Elohim to indicate that he is so majestic he is like a pile of Gods and so that the name does not indicate that there are many Gods. This is pure speculation. The Bible never says why God is called Elohim or why he calls himself that name. Also, with all the pagan gods worshipped round and about it would hardly be majestic to call oneself "Gods."
Trinity believers get little help from the occurrence of Elohim for they deny that God is three Gods in one God. Sceptics are to be forgiven for thinking that if the Bible teaches the Trinity it does indeed mean three Gods in one God. The Bible never teaches the Christian doctrine that God is three "persons" in one being and never supports the Christian claim that they do not claim that there are three persons in one person but three so-called persons in one being. Elohim led to the Mormon Church deciding that many gods working as one made the universe.
CONCLUSION
The doctrine of the Trinity has no rational or biblical support. There is no evidence in its favour. It is just another Catholic concession to pagan trends and fashion to get members.
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